• MI5-Persecution: MI5 are Afraid to Admit Theyre Behind the Persecution (26483)

    From MI5-Victim@MI5-Victim@mi5.gov.uk to alt.buttered.scones,alt.electronics,alt.ham-radio.hf,alt.nurse,sci.electronics on Sun Dec 16 16:46:54 2007
    From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.hf


    MI5 are Afraid to Admit They're Behind the Persecution

    MI5 have issued a formal denial of any involvement in my life to the
    Security Service Tribunal, as you might expect them to; but, more
    importantly, the persecutors have never denied that theyre from the
    Security Service, despite several years of accusations from my corner on
    usenet and in faxed articles. I am not surprised that the Security Service Tribunal found "no determination in your favour". I am however a little surprised that the persecutors have refused to confirm my identification
    of them; by doing so, they implicitly admit that my guess was right.

    "No determination in your favour" says the Security Service Tribunal

    In 1997, I made a complaint to the Security Service Tribunal, giving only
    the bare outlines of my case. I do not think it would have made very much difference if Id made a much more detailed complaint, since the Tribunal
    has no ability to perform investigatory functions. It can only ask MI5 if
    they have an interest in a subject, to which MI5 are of course free to be "economical with the truth". A couple of months after my complaint the
    Tribunal replied that;

    The Security Service Tribunal have now investigated your complaint and
    have asked me to inform you that no determination in your favour has been
    made on your complaint.

    Needless to say this reply didnt surprise me in the slightest. It is a
    well established fact that the secret service are a den of liars and the Tribunal a toothless watchdog, so to see them conforming to these
    stereotypes might be disappointing but unsurprising.

    It is noteworthy that the Tribunal never gives the plaintiff information
    on whether the "no determination in your favour" is because MI5 claims to
    have no interest in him, or whether they claim their interest is
    "justified". In the 1997 report of the Security Service Commissioner he
    writes that "The ambiguity of the terms in which the notification of the Tribunals decision is expressed is intentional", since a less ambiguous
    answer would indicate to the plaintiff whether he were indeed under MI5 surveillance. But I note that the ambiguity also allows MI5 to get away
    with lying to the question of their interest in me; they can claim to the Tribunal that they have no interest, but at a future date, when it becomes clear that they did indeed place me under surveillance and harassment,
    they can claim their interest was "justified" - and the Tribunal will presumably not admit that in their previous reply MI5 claimed to have no interest.

    "He doesnt know who we are"

    In early January 1996 I flew on a British Airways jet from London to
    Montreal; also present on the plane, about three or four rows behind me,
    were two young men, one of them fat and voluble, the other silent. It was
    quite clear that these two had been planted on the aircraft to "wind me
    up". The fat youth described the town in Poland where I had spent
    Christmas, and made some unpleasant personal slurs against me. Most interestingly, he said the words, "he doesnt know who we are".

    Now I find this particular form of words very interesting, because while
    it is not a clear admission, it is only a half-hearted attempt at denial
    of my guess that "they" = "MI5". Had my guess been wrong, the fat youth
    would surely have said so more clearly. What he was trying to do was to half-deny something he knew to be true, and he was limited to making
    statements which he knew to be not false; so he made a lukewarm denial
    which on the face of it means nothing, but in fact acts as a confirmation
    of my guess of who "they" are.

    On one of the other occasions when I saw the persecutors in person, on the
    BA flight to Toronto in June 1993, one of the group of four men said, "if
    he tries to run away well find him". But the other three stayed totally
    quiet and avoided eye contact. They did so to avoid being apprehended and identified - since if they were identified, their employers would have
    been revealed, and it would become known that it was the secret services
    who were behind the persecution.

    Why are MI5 So Afraid to admit their involvement?

    If you think about it, what has been going on in Britain for the last nine years is simply beyond belief. The British declare themselves to be
    "decent" by definition, so when they engage in indecent activities such as
    the persecution of a mentally ill person, their decency "because were
    British" is still in the forefront of their minds, and a process of mental doublethink kicks in, where their antisocial and indecent activities are
    blamed on the victim "because its his fault were persecuting him", and
    their self-regard and self-image of decency remains untarnished. As
    remarked in another article some time ago, this process is basically the
    same as a large number of Germans employed fifty years ago against Slavic "untermenschen" and the Jewish "threat" - the Germans declared, "Germans
    are known to be decent and the minorities are at fault for what we do to
    them" - so they were able to retain the view of themselves as being
    "decent".

    Now suppose this entire episode had happened in some other country. The
    British have a poor view of the French, so lets say it had all happened in France. Suppose there was a Frenchman, of non-French extraction, who was targeted by the French internal security apparatus, for the dubious
    amusement of French television newscasters, and tortured for 9 years with various sexual and other verbal abuse and taunts of "suicide". Suppose
    this all came out into the open. Naturally, the French authorities would
    try hard to place the blame on their victim - and in their own country,
    through the same state-controlled media which the authorities employ as instruments of torture, their view might prevail - but what on earth would people overseas make of their actions? Where would their "decency" be
    then?

    This is why MI5 are so afraid to admit theyre behind the
    persecution. Because if they did admit responsibility, then they would be admitting that there was an action against me - and if the truth came out,
    then the walls would come tumbling down. And if the persecutors were to
    admit they were from MI5, then you can be sure I would report the
    fact; and the persecutors support would fall away, among the mass media as
    well as among the general public. When I started identifying MI5 as the persecutors in 1995 and 1996 there was a sharp reduction in media
    harassment, since people read my internet newsgroup posts and knew I was telling the truth. The persecutors cannot deny my claim that theyre MI5, because then I would report their denial and they would be seen as liars -
    but they cannot admit it either, as that would puncture their campaign
    against me. So they are forced to maintain a ridiculous silence on the
    issue of their identity, in the face of vociferous accusations on internet newsgroups and faxed articles.

    Have MI5 lied to the Home Secretary?

    In order for the Security Services to bug my home, they would either have needed a warrant from the Home Secretary, or they might have instituted
    the bugging without a warrant. Personally I think it is more likely that
    they didnt apply for a warrant - I cannot see any Home Secretary giving
    MI5 authority to bug a residence to allow television newscasters to
    satisfy their rather voyeuristic needs vis-a-vis one of their
    audience. But it is possible that the Security Service presented a warrant
    in some form before a home secretary at some point in the last nine years,
    for telephone tapping or surveillance of my residence, or interception of postal service.

    So the possibility presents itself that a Home Secretary might have signed
    a warrant presented to him based on MI5 lies. Just as MI5 lie to the
    Security Service Tribunal, so they might have lied to a Home Secretray
    himself. MI5 and MI6 are naturally secretive services former home
    secretary Roy Jenkins said, they have a "secretive atmosphere
    ... secretive vis-a-vis the government as well as [enemies]". Jenkins
    also said he "did not form a very high regard for how they discharged
    their duties".

    It was only a few years ago that MI5 was brought into any sot the
    extraordinary thing is that British media organisations like the state-
    and taxpayer-funded BBC take such an active part in the MI5-inspired
    campaign of harassment. We have after all heard of MI5 trying to bribe broadcast journalists; but surely there must be a substantial number who
    are not bought or blackmailed by the Security Services, and who take part
    in the "abuse by newscasters" of their own volition? The BBC is supposed
    to be independent of the government of the day as well as the
    Establishment in general. While perhaps it is childish to think that the
    BBC is anything other than effectively state-controlled, the degree of collusion between the BBC and the British Secret Police MI5 is something
    you would not find in many countries. Individual tele-journalists in other countries would have enough self-esteem not to allow themselves to be controlled by their secret police - seemingly, BBC broadcasters like
    Martyn Lewis and Nicholas Witchell have such a low opinion of their
    employing organisation that they see no wrong in dragging the BBCs no-longer-good name through yet more mud, at the mere request (whether supported by financial or other inducements) of the British secret Police,
    MI5.

    And when challenged, these broadcasters LIE about their involvement, with
    just as little shame as MI5 themselves. The BBCs Information dept have
    said that;

    "I can assure you that the BBC would never engage in any form of
    surveillance activity such as you describe"

    which is an out-and-out lie. Buerk and Lewis have themselves lied to their colleagues in the BBCs Information department over the "newscaster
    watching", but unsurprisingly they refuse to put these denials in
    writing. Doubtless if the "newscaster watching" ever comes to light, Buerk
    and Lewis will then continue to lie by lying about these denials. So much
    for the "impartial" BBC, a nest of liars bought and paid for by the
    Security Services!

    It is obvious that the persecution is at the instigation of MI5 themselves
    - they have read my post, and only they have the surveillance technology
    and media/political access. Yet they have lied outright to the Security
    Service Tribunal. Similarly, BBC newscasters Michael Buerk and Martyn
    Lewis have lied to members of their own organisation. The continuing
    harassment indicates they are all petrified of this business coming out
    into the open. I will continue to do everything possible to ensure that
    their wrongdoing is exposed.

    26483


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