• the last news post?

    From Mike G@oilpan@optonline.net to alt.ham-radio.packet on Sat Nov 26 00:30:29 2011
    From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.packet

    according to my news reader, the last post in this packet discussion
    group was 3-28-2011..... the remarkable loss of packet interest just
    increases almost exponentially every year.


    */M.G. - Darkgovernment.com/news <http://www.darkgovernment.com/news>/*/ /


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  • From lugh@lugh@eternal-flames.gov to alt.ham-radio.packet on Sat Nov 26 18:00:23 2011
    From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.packet

    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:30:29 -0500, Mike G <oilpan@optonline.net>
    wrote:

    according to my news reader, the last post in this packet discussion
    group was 3-28-2011..... the remarkable loss of packet interest just >increases almost exponentially every year.

    I make it just fourteen posts in this newsgroup this year.

    Nick.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From No Body@nobody@nowhere.com to alt.ham-radio.packet on Sun Nov 27 10:42:04 2011
    From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.packet

    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:00:23 +0000, lugh@eternal-flames.gov <lugh@eternal-flames.gov> wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:30:29 -0500, Mike G <oilpan@optonline.net>
    wrote:

    according to my news reader, the last post in this packet discussion
    group was 3-28-2011..... the remarkable loss of packet interest just >>increases almost exponentially every year.

    I make it just fourteen posts in this newsgroup this year.

    Nick.

    I think it's just a remarkable lack of interest in Usenet news.

    I think blogs and web pages have largely killed off usenet news.

    In a way, it's a shame, because you have to go searching for those
    resources... usenet news just dropped in your lap, when ever anyone had something to say.

    Unfortunately, the signal to noise ratio was a bit too high.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John@john_a_ireland@hotmail.com to alt.ham-radio.packet on Sun Nov 27 08:14:33 2011
    From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.packet

    No Body wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:00:23 +0000, lugh@eternal-flames.gov <lugh@eternal-flames.gov> wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:30:29 -0500, Mike G <oilpan@optonline.net>
    wrote:

    according to my news reader, the last post in this packet discussion
    group was 3-28-2011..... the remarkable loss of packet interest just
    increases almost exponentially every year.
    I make it just fourteen posts in this newsgroup this year.

    Nick.

    I think it's just a remarkable lack of interest in Usenet news.

    I think blogs and web pages have largely killed off usenet news.

    In a way, it's a shame, because you have to go searching for those resources... usenet news just dropped in your lap, when ever anyone had something to say.

    Unfortunately, the signal to noise ratio was a bit too high.
    I think for both usenet and packet it boils down to the fact you need something to connect to. A lot of ISPs have dropped usenet and people
    have not searched out the free providers. Also, so many people have put
    their packet gear up on the shelf and turned it off that there is not
    much out there. I find i don't have the time to ham in big chunks that
    i used to which has hurt my efforts to get a linux based packet BBS back
    on the air. It is difficult to get too inspired for all the work when
    there are no packet stations on the air that I can hear.

    A lot has changed. Who wants a text schematic when you can get a PDF
    with schematic and photos and text all together. My first packet
    station was a TNC and a terminal. It used to be so cool to get home from
    class and find messages waiting (30 years ago). Not sure where i would
    find the room for a big old terminal in the house anymore, but I guess i
    could hook my TNC to my netbook. :-) Maybe if we could get n app to do packet on an Android there would get to be a bit of life in the mode. :-)

    john AD7EV
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From No Body@nobody@nowhere.com to alt.ham-radio.packet on Mon Nov 28 10:42:04 2011
    From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.packet

    On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:14:33 -0800, John <john_a_ireland@hotmail.com> wrote:
    No Body wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:00:23 +0000, lugh@eternal-flames.gov
    <lugh@eternal-flames.gov> wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:30:29 -0500, Mike G <oilpan@optonline.net>
    wrote:

    I think for both usenet and packet it boils down to the fact you need something to connect to. A lot of ISPs have dropped usenet and people
    have not searched out the free providers. Also, so many people have put their packet gear up on the shelf and turned it off that there is not
    much out there. I find i don't have the time to ham in big chunks that
    i used to which has hurt my efforts to get a linux based packet BBS back
    on the air. It is difficult to get too inspired for all the work when
    there are no packet stations on the air that I can hear.

    A lot has changed. Who wants a text schematic when you can get a PDF
    with schematic and photos and text all together. My first packet
    station was a TNC and a terminal. It used to be so cool to get home from class and find messages waiting (30 years ago). Not sure where i would
    find the room for a big old terminal in the house anymore, but I guess i could hook my TNC to my netbook. :-) Maybe if we could get n app to do packet on an Android there would get to be a bit of life in the mode. :-)

    john AD7EV

    Two other things that have, in my opinion, killed off packet, are D-Star and ARES/RACES.

    ARES/RACES has become a ghetto of a very few self-selected hams who have decided that emergancy services in the ham community is their domain, alone. They have seen to it that it takes "special credentials" and "background investigations" before you are allowed to play in their sandbox. And they intend to exclude the vast unwashed ham population from the emergancy
    services relm entirely. This is aided and abetted by the metality of
    the communities that they "serve", in codifying those "requirements".

    D-Star has played a role in this. D-Star is expensive. As a result many of
    the HAMS that have them are either wealthy, or so dedicated to the "cause" that they will spend what it takes, or are, in some cases, supported by
    grants administered by those same self-selected "leaders" mentioned above.

    As a result, they have created both voice and data networks, separate from
    the main ham community, around D-Star. This will, in my opinion, come to
    a tragic end. In our area, the main technical proponant of D-Star, and
    the "designer" of a horribly complicated, is now in place.

    Due to the poor econonomic conditions, this one person has been forced to leave the area to seek employment elsewhere, leaving the network without
    it's key designer/ administrator. The local ARES leadership can't even
    set up their own D-star mobile rigs to particpate in the network,
    without his help.

    Additionally, the data network is being used to do such things as bridge e-mail from served agency to another. This email isn't reviewed by the
    amateur radio operator who is injecting it into the network. One day,
    we will discover that the messages sent were the equivelent to
    "a pizza order" violating our amateur regulations.. and reducing the
    role of the amateur radio operator to "common carrier"; a role
    that we are specifically prohibited.

    When a serious emergancy occurs, the few hams that ARE willing to put
    up with the rigamarole may or may not be available; and the overly
    complex network they have created will crumble. It will fall back
    to the "old" hams to take up the slack.

    The other thing I object to is the concept that D-star is "open source"..
    it is, up until you come to the codec chip.. and this is proprietary.
    It's why you don't see any competition for D-star and no open source implementations. I'd like to see Icom buy the intelectual property in
    the codec and release it to the public, for free. When they do, I'll
    consider buying a D-star radio.. and not before.

    I too was one of the old packet operators... using an ADM3 and a stand alone TNC on a crystal controlled 2m radio... it's gathering dust someplace.

    Steve

    P.S. I have nothing against "knowledge" or "credentials" or "background checks", and I would probably pass every one of them in a flash. What I
    object to, is that these things are the price of entry for a volunteer service. I have a ham ticket and the willingness to help. That
    should be sufficient.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John@john_a_ireland@hotmail.com to alt.ham-radio.packet on Mon Nov 28 09:18:22 2011
    From Newsgroup: alt.ham-radio.packet

    No Body wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 08:14:33 -0800, John <john_a_ireland@hotmail.com> wrote:
    No Body wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:00:23 +0000, lugh@eternal-flames.gov
    <lugh@eternal-flames.gov> wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:30:29 -0500, Mike G <oilpan@optonline.net>
    wrote:

    I think for both usenet and packet it boils down to the fact you need
    something to connect to. A lot of ISPs have dropped usenet and people
    have not searched out the free providers. Also, so many people have put
    their packet gear up on the shelf and turned it off that there is not
    much out there. I find i don't have the time to ham in big chunks that
    i used to which has hurt my efforts to get a linux based packet BBS back
    on the air. It is difficult to get too inspired for all the work when
    there are no packet stations on the air that I can hear.

    A lot has changed. Who wants a text schematic when you can get a PDF
    with schematic and photos and text all together. My first packet
    station was a TNC and a terminal. It used to be so cool to get home from
    class and find messages waiting (30 years ago). Not sure where i would
    find the room for a big old terminal in the house anymore, but I guess i
    could hook my TNC to my netbook. :-) Maybe if we could get n app to do
    packet on an Android there would get to be a bit of life in the mode. :-) >>
    john AD7EV

    Two other things that have, in my opinion, killed off packet, are D-Star and ARES/RACES.

    ARES/RACES has become a ghetto of a very few self-selected hams who have decided that emergancy services in the ham community is their domain, alone. They have seen to it that it takes "special credentials" and "background investigations" before you are allowed to play in their sandbox. And they intend to exclude the vast unwashed ham population from the emergancy services relm entirely. This is aided and abetted by the metality of
    the communities that they "serve", in codifying those "requirements".

    D-Star has played a role in this. D-Star is expensive. As a result many of the HAMS that have them are either wealthy, or so dedicated to the "cause" that they will spend what it takes, or are, in some cases, supported by grants administered by those same self-selected "leaders" mentioned above.

    As a result, they have created both voice and data networks, separate from the main ham community, around D-Star. This will, in my opinion, come to
    a tragic end. In our area, the main technical proponant of D-Star, and
    the "designer" of a horribly complicated, is now in place.

    Due to the poor econonomic conditions, this one person has been forced to leave the area to seek employment elsewhere, leaving the network without it's key designer/ administrator. The local ARES leadership can't even
    set up their own D-star mobile rigs to particpate in the network,
    without his help.

    Additionally, the data network is being used to do such things as bridge e-mail from served agency to another. This email isn't reviewed by the amateur radio operator who is injecting it into the network. One day,
    we will discover that the messages sent were the equivelent to
    "a pizza order" violating our amateur regulations.. and reducing the
    role of the amateur radio operator to "common carrier"; a role
    that we are specifically prohibited.

    When a serious emergancy occurs, the few hams that ARE willing to put
    up with the rigamarole may or may not be available; and the overly
    complex network they have created will crumble. It will fall back
    to the "old" hams to take up the slack.

    The other thing I object to is the concept that D-star is "open source"..
    it is, up until you come to the codec chip.. and this is proprietary.
    It's why you don't see any competition for D-star and no open source implementations. I'd like to see Icom buy the intelectual property in
    the codec and release it to the public, for free. When they do, I'll consider buying a D-star radio.. and not before.

    I too was one of the old packet operators... using an ADM3 and a stand alone TNC on a crystal controlled 2m radio... it's gathering dust someplace.

    Steve

    P.S. I have nothing against "knowledge" or "credentials" or "background checks", and I would probably pass every one of them in a flash. What I object to, is that these things are the price of entry for a volunteer service. I have a ham ticket and the willingness to help. That
    should be sufficient.


    Steve, I absolutely agree on every point. I am glad there are ways to approach ham radio that avoids most of the little kingdoms. My wife and
    I are both hams so i occasionally use the repeaters, but i tend to steer
    clear of anything organized from the top down as of late. I've even
    gotten away from the ham club with the exception of teaching license
    classes. What I have done is to get as active as possible in getting a
    75M and 6M bunch together so that everybody knows there is a local get together, and a local frequency. Mostly it is the old guys that get
    together, but it is an open get together and when enough guys show up we
    tend to run it as a round table. Unstructured and flexible, just a time
    and a place with no one in particular in charge. Lots of folks have all
    kinds of emergency service experience. I was a county fire chief for a
    few years, and have over 20 years in the volunteer fire service, and
    there are plenty of other locally who could get a group organized enough
    to make a start at productive work in an emergency. It is much less
    important to have a leader than it is to know where to meet and at what watering hole.

    Packet is a great tool for emergencies because you own it and it is
    agile. Once you put it into a network, it starts feeding into the top
    layer and quickly becomes tentacles of the beast pulling local resources
    and knowledge to the top of the system so things can be controlled
    towards purposes that may or may not serve the best and/or most
    important local needs. Since I'm a retired electrical engineer I do
    tend to take a pretty biased technical view on the whole thing, but with
    the announcement the other day that our ham numbers have reached 700,000
    I admit that my first thought was that we now have half a million hams
    that can't program their own handheld. I guess I'm becoming pretty
    cynical in my old age.

    I do see a lot more people joining for the ARES/RACES hobby that to
    become knowledgeable about radio and antennas and propagation.

    Way off the topic, but in a remotely related vein you might enjoy
    reading this. http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2011/11/23/a-million-gardens-for-the-99-of-the-99/

    Dig around in the closet and dig out that old TNC and put up a node on
    145.01. You never know, someone might find it and get a bit of good use
    out of it.

    john AD7EV
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